Curse

Akshara · Jun 22, 2005, 08:25 AM // 08:25

I'd like to let all the good and excellent monks worthy of love who are reading know that this thread is a good example of why I, and many others that I know, have just started taking Alesia and dealing with it.

She doesn't complain or argue.

She doesn't insult, talk down to or abuse inexperienced or new players.

She doesn't think that the whole party revolves around her.

She'll heal anybody, regardless of their ability, personality or attitude.

She won't quit or leave the group when things get difficult.

Rarely do party members ever bitch at or scream at Alesia for not healing or rezzing them, creating a better atmosphere.

I've partied with several high-level so-called "healing monks" as of late in missions, and all of them were either: a) a miserable experience, though we completed the mission; b) a miserable experience, because everyone died repeatedly and it was everyone's fault but the monk's, as he reminded us constantly; or c) the monk either threatened to stop healing, quit and logged out, began healing and rezzing only specific members, or decided the team was too weak for the bonus and refused to help.

However an interesting thing has happened... on many missions in the wee hours of the night, there just aren't that many monks available. So I started getting in the habit of taking Alesia, or suggesting to the group that we could. Alesia used to suck, but something got changed in a patch update because she's really not that bad anymore. And you know what?..

Each of those missions were some of the best groups I've been in, and in every one we completed both the mission and bonus. We had fun... hardly any arguing or complaining... nobody had that "do what I say or else" attitude... everyone got healed well when they needed it. Sure people died, but it was no big deal. Didn't matter which character I used, or class combination we had. Even had a heavy spellcaster group with no tanks, it was great.

Besides my Warrior and Monk characters, I have a Nec/Mo with very high healing prayers that I use ocassionally, and she takes the roll of a backup healer/rezzer in any group when not focusing on death magic... it's actually a really good combo. But the side effect of this is that when there's a monk in the group, I get to see very clearly what and how the monk is doing the healing within the party, as I try to base my strategy around theirs to support them. I've been amazed at how many healers don't heal equally througout the group, or show preferential treatment to certain members at the expense of others. I've watched monks just let people die. If I whisper to ask why, the responses I've gotten are derision, condescension or the healer just up and dropping. It's absurd.

Alesia may not be the best healer, but she has a lot of really great things going for her. I've yet to not complete a mission or quest with her as the only healer. People are getting tired of, and wise to, the whole attitude and racket that's being run by a lot of Monk healers, and if some of you better ones don't do something to turn the favor soon, we may all begin to see lots of "Monk, LFG" messages that get ignored like every other class does.

Akshara · Jun 22, 2005, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

"Well Im not healing you or ressing u"

This sums it up right here. I've read probably a hundred posts over the last several weeks where Monks are proudly sharing how they used their power to manipulate or control the people in their team to bend to their will. I've got a monk character myself, and know what it takes to be an effective healer, as well as the difficulties healers face. Anybody who threatens to not heal or quit if someone won't do what they want is not worthy to wear the monk robes, imho.

Alesia never, ever, ever does that. Something a lot of you could learn from.

Draven Mauler · Jun 22, 2005, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Very interesting thread. I have been a healer in three games now; WoW, FFXI, and GW. In all three games the healers faced the same circumstances. My first experience as healer was 2 years ago as a white mage in FFXI. I was scared to death to let somebody die. When it did happen, I took it very hard. In FFXI you actually lost something when you died, unlike GW. Nonetheless, I have learned quite a bit since then.

1. A healer has to be the most calm and attentive player in the group. I once looked away from the screen for about, um... 5 seconds. When I looked back my entire team was dead.

Nerves of steel should come standard with plummeting health meters.

2. No healer, that is a good one, is also immature. Define good. They dont speak unless spoken to (too busy spamming heals). They accept all responsibility for their own actions. They are also in control of others game play... thats too much for some "Little Billy's" who cant handle any responsibility in a game.

3. A healer must have very thick skin. So the others dont like you cause you "let" them die. Awe... are your feewings hoted? If a few "Wtfs!" and "n00bs!" bother you... your in the wrong profession. Some play Monk for the attention they get, while others want to be the hero. Either way it comes at a price and you better be willing to pay it.

4. Compliment the hand that feeds you. This goes both ways. Healers heal better when they are openly complimented for their work. Swatters swat harder with the same praise. Nobody is more important than the next. Monks who think they own the world are pathetic losers who need attention and power to feel good about themselves.

Theres many more where that came from.

AGTyson2Tone · Jun 22, 2005, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Pfffff Some people are taking things way too personal here. I think it is a general evolution that more and more people are being rude in multiplayer games (At least I have seen it in numerous games) no matter what class or type of character.
Monks should not complain, at least they are still being invited into parties.
My lvl 20 Necro practically never receives an invitation for a party, even though I can keep alive about 8 minions, which are - needless to say - a good tank in any circumstance. The lvl 16 minions deal crappy dmg, but at least they give my party's offensive characters the chance to choose their targets ideally. When I want to be in a high level party I better start making one myself, or else I have a beard twice the size of Santa's before I venture in any quest. But now I have learned this, I simply act according to it, I feel no need to start threads complaining or whining ...

Ferelle · Jun 22, 2005, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Personally I think it's just rude people being rude people. I've been playing a
monk since beta and only in the last few weeks have I had to actually leave
a group. I HATE the idea of leaving a group, but there comes a point when a
line in crossed. I can deal with being called a Noob or the annoying little
remarks about how the person needs a heal ( even though the Health bars
are burned into my eyeballs...). But blatant disrepect and personal insults, I
nor anyone else should have to "deal" with in a game or anywhere else.

Just tonight I left a group because some punk decided to call me a ****ing
***ch for "letting" him die. I guess he didn't notice that he ran off into a
horde of IceBreakers etc., without telling the rest of the group right before
he croaked and killed most of the team. Yeah....ToA seems the meeting place
of all evil!

Luckily for me, the very next group was probably one of the BEST
pickup groups I've had yet! We nearly cleared out Underworld!

Anyhow, I don't think it's just monks being abused. I've seen lots of people
being treated badly just because these jerks feel they can. Many say people
need to deal with it and to tough it out. I think that attitude is part of the
problem. This kind of behavior over the net is way too accepted...

Bottom line is, game or not, I won't and don't have to put up with abuse from
anyone. Have tougher skin cause I'm a monk? Screw that. If someone can't
treat me like a person, then they can go to hell. I'm here to have fun and
being treated like crap isn't uncluded in that.

Ferelle Anevay R/E
Elva Marie Mo/(whatever I feel like that day)

Azreal911 · Jun 22, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

I have a monk too but for that character i only party with friends in RL and if they die they just tell me on teamspeak hey i'm dead bring me back and we keep going like it's nothing, that's the way it should be. Yesterday i had my first PUG with my necro/warrior with all necro skills. we started the group with 5 and no monk so it was a good thing i started spamming fountain of blood to keep a 3 fighter and 1 ele team alive, since that was my only heal spell it was good so i had mana to use on killing when they hit up something that took forever to take down. I also used blood is power to pump up the ele so he could cast more spells, that was the first time i've played such a supportive role for my necro, in pvp i'm like "yeah go for damage!" until i hit lions arch arena, GAH!

EmperorTippy · Jun 23, 2005, 07:54 AM // 07:54

*bump*

DarrenJasper · Jun 23, 2005, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Don't bump this thread. It's gone from "monks have to deal with so many assholes" to "hey, some monks are assholes" to (hopefully) "oh, I guess all classes have their share of assholes and we really can't expect to know everything about a person by the class they play".

Of course, I could have told you that.

Xue Yi Liang · Jun 23, 2005, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

If you think thats fun this is even better. Use Unyielding Aura and whenever the person gets annoying just turn it off. They fall over dead. Its really great when you have the guy who just cant help aggroing. Whenever hes about to aggro turn Unyielding Aura off and he wont aggro anything

They learn quickly this way.

This is my absolute favorite trick I've only had to use it 3 times.
I only pull it on someone who's an absolute annoyance to the whole party (you know the ones). When he makes his next rude comment I yank the Aura and he drops. Next thing he says is, "wtf?" And everyone around him starts laughing. In once case everyone decided to pounce on his corpse jumping repeatedly - (Maybe we got carried away there but, trust me, this fella deserved it - everybody thought so).
The cruelest thing I did was (same fella as above) in the UW. A smite dropped and Eternal Shield for him and so I dropped HIM just before he was able to grab it. He lay helplessly dead just a couple of feet from his prize. But I did rez him 20 seconds later so could get it. Sure, I could have waited and taken the shield myself - but that would be just plain wrong.

Ancalagon06 · Jun 23, 2005, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

Don't bump this thread. It's gone from "monks have to deal with so many assholes" to "hey, some monks are assholes" to (hopefully) "oh, I guess all classes have their share of assholes and we really can't expect to know everything about a person by the class they play".

Of course, I could have told you that.

Indeed. I don't run off after we finish off a group. Not only do the monks need to recharge, but EVERYONE else does to. A warrior, or, hell, any class, that runs off before everyone's health bar is up to max, and all conditions and hexes are gone (At the very least, not counting mana) is an idiot.

Having said that, people who abuse other players because of their monk skill frustrate me. Because they have healing, they can suddenly chose to not heal? In the 10 minute no-res-me group, I actually snapped. Having just been through a mission with a group that left me unrezed for 32 minutes, I was not happy. So, I did what any good [sic] warrior would do. Upon being rezed, I ran into a group of monsters, then lead them straight back to the monk. And then sprinted away from the group to wait until the monk succumbed to the sweet sweet effects of angry dwarves.

Hey, before you flame me, remember, my job as a warrior is to keep the enemy away from you, and soak damage. If you don't do your job, why should I do mine?

EmperorTippy · Jun 23, 2005, 09:00 AM // 09:00

^^
HeHe sounds like something I would do. As for stopping heals and leaving you dead I don't do that, my way is better. You can still fight but when you get mean out comes the Unyielding Aura. The plus for you is that no matter how many times you die your DP never decreases cause I remove it right before you die. The plus for us is having a leash to control you with. BTW as Unyielding Aura is an enchantment if you go to far away from the caster it turns off and you die.

Ancalagon06 · Jun 23, 2005, 09:07 AM // 09:07

That's all well and good, but what if I come across a monk that thinks they know better than me? Like, for example in Hell's Precipice, when I want to go get the bonus, and they won't listen to me, and then refuse to heal or res me? What am I supposed to, (in this case as an elementalist) do then? Luckily, my secondary was a monk, and I could heal better than he/she/it could anyway.

What about the time a monk cast the aura on me (god knows why, I was the only person in my party who hadn't died yet) and then went AFK without telling anyone? Twiddle my thumbs?

I'm just saying, just because people treat you bad at times doesn't mean you have to use unyielding aura to beat them into submission. I get crap all the time as a warrior as it is from people because they don't understand the concept of "Tank stays in FRONT". Especially in the UW vs. the damn smiting spiders. Or they start screaming at me because I "aggroed everything!" when in fact our elementalist had done it because they wanted to run ahead and cast mark of rodgort on the enemy?

Every class gets crap, and every class has their moments of "no one loves me! I should just quit!" But I'm getting side tracked, my main issue is monks thinking it's okay to slap aura on someone like they were a quasi-slave. Sure, people are bad, but, this bothers me on a serious level. I would never, as a warrior, or as an elementalist, or as a necromancer, hold the lives of my party members above their heads. I either just ignore their crap and move on, or ignore their crap and move on. I've got a job to do, the idiocy of my party shouldn't effect that.

I've only mistreated a monk once, and that was because my patience had run out. I've been mistreated by monks far more. If people run on ahead of you, just don't move until you're done regen-ing mana. They'll quickly figure out that when you say "wait, must get energy" that you mean it. No one's making you charge off like a madman into the enemies waiting for you. Sure, that contradicts my earlier statment about doing my job, but part of a monk's job is resurrection.

Personally, if the game would let me, I'd strip it off any time someone put it on me. I don't die often enough to need it. BUT IT WON'T. I don't think....hmm.

BlaineTog · Jun 23, 2005, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by triorph

aye, i've just recently started a new monk char, so far its only happened once, but i had a stone summit crusher attacking me and this person had called on the engineer (who doesn't fight back, so doesn't need to die) i pointed this out and said i'd prefer it if they left engineers till last and i was called a newb, by the end she was calling me a "newb" monk and saying she knows what it takes to be a true monk from beta tests.

Which is funny, because PvE for the beta tests ended right after the searing of Ascalon (there was a quest or two, and then nothing IIRC).

My monk rarely has any problems. I do get peeved at all the people who feel the need to scream "Rez me! Rez me!" in the middle of a battle, as if the party would be just fine if I took an 8-second nap to rez them and then another three or four seconds healing them back up to full.

EmperorTippy · Jun 23, 2005, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancalagon06

That's all well and good, but what if I come across a monk that thinks they know better than me? Like, for example in Hell's Precipice, when I want to go get the bonus, and they won't listen to me, and then refuse to heal or res me? What am I supposed to, (in this case as an elementalist) do then? Luckily, my secondary was a monk, and I could heal better than he/she/it could anyway.

What about the time a monk cast the aura on me (god knows why, I was the only person in my party who hadn't died yet) and then went AFK without telling anyone? Twiddle my thumbs?

I'm just saying, just because people treat you bad at times doesn't mean you have to use unyielding aura to beat them into submission. I get crap all the time as a warrior as it is from people because they don't understand the concept of "Tank stays in FRONT". Especially in the UW vs. the damn smiting spiders. Or they start screaming at me because I "aggroed everything!" when in fact our elementalist had done it because they wanted to run ahead and cast mark of rodgort on the enemy?

Every class gets crap, and every class has their moments of "no one loves me! I should just quit!" But I'm getting side tracked, my main issue is monks thinking it's okay to slap aura on someone like they were a quasi-slave. Sure, people are bad, but, this bothers me on a serious level. I would never, as a warrior, or as an elementalist, or as a necromancer, hold the lives of my party members above their heads. I either just ignore their crap and move on, or ignore their crap and move on. I've got a job to do, the idiocy of my party shouldn't effect that.

I've only mistreated a monk once, and that was because my patience had run out. I've been mistreated by monks far more. If people run on ahead of you, just don't move until you're done regen-ing mana. They'll quickly figure out that when you say "wait, must get energy" that you mean it. No one's making you charge off like a madman into the enemies waiting for you. Sure, that contradicts my earlier statment about doing my job, but part of a monk's job is resurrection.

Personally, if the game would let me, I'd strip it off any time someone put it on me. I don't die often enough to need it. BUT IT WON'T. I don't think....hmm.

If you tank properly I will keep you alive. Being a good warrior automatically gets you added to my friends list as I haven't found that many who are that great.

I never go AFK short of a)house burning down b)someone breaks in c)something requiring a trip to the emergancy room.

I will listen to anyone in game unless I know what they are saying is wrong.

It is to your benifet for me to res you with Unyielding Aura. I turn it off right before you die so that you gain no DP.

If you are really good I would most likely have somone else res you.

Storn · Jun 23, 2005, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draven Mauler

Very interesting thread. I have been a healer in three games now; WoW, FFXI, and GW. In all three games the healers faced the same circumstances. My first experience as healer was 2 years ago as a white mage in FFXI. I was scared to death to let somebody die. When it did happen, I took it very hard. In FFXI you actually lost something when you died, unlike GW. Nonetheless, I have learned quite a bit since then.

1. A healer has to be the most calm and attentive player in the group. I once looked away from the screen for about, um... 5 seconds. When I looked back my entire team was dead.

Nerves of steel should come standard with plummeting health meters.

2. No healer, that is a good one, is also immature. Define good. They dont speak unless spoken to (too busy spamming heals). They accept all responsibility for their own actions. They are also in control of others game play... thats too much for some "Little Billy's" who cant handle any responsibility in a game.

3. A healer must have very thick skin. So the others dont like you cause you "let" them die. Awe... are your feewings hoted? If a few "Wtfs!" and "n00bs!" bother you... your in the wrong profession. Some play Monk for the attention they get, while others want to be the hero. Either way it comes at a price and you better be willing to pay it.

4. Compliment the hand that feeds you. This goes both ways. Healers heal better when they are openly complimented for their work. Swatters swat harder with the same praise. Nobody is more important than the next. Monks who think they own the world are pathetic losers who need attention and power to feel good about themselves.

Theres many more where that came from.

Well said. Bravo.

1., yup, look away for an instant and someone dies. It can be tough in those long battles. I notice that a lot of folks are typing out strategies and such during a battle... often I can't read them because i"m working out who is going to get what Healing skill.

4. So important. A well timed Necro heal or Elem Firestorm... a good tank blocking several foes... ranger hitting with a distracting shot so bad guy can't get uber spell off... Mesmer draining... all of these things can keep a team alive. Give away compliments, they are free! And what they can get you in return is almost priceless.

Azmodan · Jun 23, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

As I said in another thread, as a primary monk, I don't need praise or accolades. I need cooperation and RESPECT. I sure don't yell profanities at the elementalists that aggro 3 mobs or even the so called tanks that pull aggro back to me when their health gets below 50%. I don't expect nor will I accept people screaming profanities at me.

The most I do to the stupid players is move them to the bottom of my priority list. That is in the best interest of the team. I won't continually waste heals on someone with a 60% DP because they are dumb when other players are in need. Who would you rather have alive, the tank with 500 HP or the tank with 250 HP? Think about it.

As for the people screaming "rez plz", do you even realize how long it takes to cast a rez spell? Do you realize how many other people could die in that amount of time?

I never charge or hold anyone hostage. And, I turn down offers to pay for me to get into UW or Fissure. I play for fun and enjoy healing. I do the very best I can at all times. We all make mistakes. If you respect me, I will respect you.

stumpy · Jul 04, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

rebirth .... thats all i gotta say ... inform them that when ressing it drains all your energy for 10 seconds afterwards ... if someone takes off into battle ... let them run. They will never learn about energy regen until they have a -60 dp after the first 6 mobs. Call your energy, your as much at fault for not calling it, as you are for letting them run off. Selective ressurection ... if she/he continues to badger you and does not decide to play like a team with EVERYONE's best interest in mind, then keep him dead. He will likely cause your group more grief than benefit. We finished the game with 5 people. 1 baby quit, 1 had to work, 1 got d/c. When the baby quit, he left saying 'THIS IS THE WORST F-CKIN GROUP YOU LOSER NOOBS, LEARN HOW TO PLAY' .... needless to say we went on to beat the game and he went back to town. The group actually had a fun time after and was very impressed by our teamwork.

Finally, to avoid these types of attitudes, a simple IQ test pre-mission will suffice.